Teach 2 Dumb Dudes

Slave Karma and Her Master Joshua: Dominance, Submission, and Spirituality

August 22, 2022 Joe Bento Season 2 Episode 19
Teach 2 Dumb Dudes
Slave Karma and Her Master Joshua: Dominance, Submission, and Spirituality
Show Notes Transcript

Joshua is a professional Dominant (the male equivalent of a Dominatrix), and a Non-Traditional Sexual Behaviors Consultant. Karma is Joshua's sex slave, and a happily married (to another man) mother of two. Karma was a staff reporter for a reputable conservative publication, and Joshua was research. But, following Him deeper and deeper into New York's sexual underground, she crossed the line between observer and participant, right and wrong. At its core, their story is one of an uplifting personal transformation; it also showcases the lifestyle of one of the most sensationalized and least understood factions in LGBTQA+. Be sure to check out Karma's book: Surviving Master Joshua: The BDSM Memoir Of An Unfaithful Wife. https://survivingmasterjoshua.com/

Bobby:

Bobby. You're my slave. Good luck dude. Barely listen to my own life. Nevermind another one. She, she would agree with that. That's what I'm saying. Like imagine, imagine you or her and had two wives, like I'm not listening to fucking either one, right? That would, I would be a shitty dominant. Forget too much.

Bento:

what do you want me to do? Just sit there. Be quiet. I'm gonna play video games. Okay.

Bobby:

Master. Oh, it's just be one of those things. You're like, yo, I told you, you know, go do ABC. And then like three hours later, I'd be like, what did I tell you to do again? Yeah. Right. Did you do 'em? She's

Bento:

like, yeah. It's

Bobby:

all set. Yeah. She'd be like, yeah, those are done, man. I did those two days ago.

Bento:

You're like sweet. And then just tell it to do the same thing again.

Bobby:

right. We telling her to do things that are already done.

Bento:

hey, what's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of teach two dumb dudes am boy bento I'm with my boy Bobby today, we have a very interesting guest view. it is slave karma and her master Joshua. So master Joshua is a professional dominant the male equivalent of a Dori and a nontraditional sexual behaviors consultant. karma is technically his slave and she started out as a journalist. Did research on an article of this lifestyle, ended up getting intertwined in lifestyle, even cheating on her husband, who they're actually still together. And, we kind of go down this journey. They had of how they get into this. and it turns from, you know, a conversation we thought was gonna be about sex into something very deep and spiritual and,

Bobby:

philosophical. And don't forget to get out there on YouTube. Leave us some comments. We're at teach two dumb dudes is number two on YouTube, easy to find. And of course, go on apple podcasts and leave us some feedback.

Bento:

So how you guys doing? Uh, where are you guys? Where are you guys out of New York city. Oh,

Bobby:

New York city. Nice. Get over Manhattan. I saw. Oh yeah, right.

Bento:

Yeah. We're right up the road hammer island. So I dunno if you guys are getting blasted by the heat, like we are.

Joshua:

Yeah, dude, it's been like this for like two weeks now. Today was not so bad. It was in the seventies. Yeah. Yeah.

Bobby:

Same here. Right, right, right, right. Not too bad today. Yeah. Not too bad today. Most of it tomorrow

Bento:

though. Right back up. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. Awesome. Brutal. Thank you so much for coming on guys today. We, we really don't. We really appreciate your time. Teach two dumb dudes is, uh, you know, our podcast. We put together to hear stories just like yours. We want to hear, you know, everything from everybody. And so when we, uh, you know, got in touch with you folks, we were extremely excited, uh, to have you on to hear more about Joshua, what, you know, kind of what you, I guess, do for a living. Is that, am I correct in saying that? Yeah. And then karma yourself, uh, you know, your story and, and, you know, we obviously looked at your book as well. And so just really interested to, uh, uh, hear the stories here. So please tell us, how did you both, well, karma, I guess we'll, we'll get to, you know, the book and, and your experience with Joshua and a little bit, but like Joshua, how did you start this movement, uh, to BDSM. Uh,

Joshua:

so I grew up here in New York city. In the eighties and nineties, masculinity being defined by how much sets you have. Right. Mm-hmm sure. So I started my venture very early at 12. right. 12. Wow. That's what you do, right. That's what is expected of you? That's what you that's at 12. So that's what I knew. I didn't know anything different. Mm-hmm you know, looking, looking at the root of it. I'm gonna blame my parents, but it's not their fault. No. Right.

Bobby:

Yeah. But you obviously had influences from them. Yeah,

Joshua:

no, no. What it was is cuz sex addiction. Some people believe in it. Some people don't, I believe in it, I believe I've been affected by sex and the power it had over me. Uh, and BDSM health changed. Oh my God. That's another reason why this BDSM as a religion. We'll get to that.

Bobby:

yeah, yeah, yeah. We did see that. I saw that in there, the spiritual connection in, in your, your post there. And I was like, wait a second spiritual connection. Yeah, no, no,

Joshua:

but, but so the power to move past it. Oh my God. This is so crazy. Oh my God. all right. Sorry about that. So it's all good. They all, they worked right? Because their role models were the grandparents and their grandparents had fucking eight job, eight jobs. Right. So it's right. All they know as love equals support. Right, right. I have to provide for you. And that's me showing you love forgetting about the sitting on the laps, right? The hugs, the kisses, the tucks, the sleep shit like that, that matters. Right. Because as a parent, when I would look at it, I was like, I wanna be the parent I didn't have right. In the sense of affection and intimacy come and hug. Let me hold my child. So anyway, sure. Sex was that, was that feeling for it for years? Right? Mm-hmm uh, in my twenties, uh, I came across BDSM and through time through relationship development, in my own journey, I saw the importance of giving someone, your undivided attention. Other people call it holding space, right. Holding space for people. And when they shared, when they feel seen and heard, they'll tell you anything. Right. But there's a responsibility behind that too. Right. Because I, I believe in karma as my governing law, as my, you know, the rules of engagement here on earth for me. Right. And, uh, There's a responsibility when people are giving you their identity, their consciousness, their vulnerability. And if you fuck it up, it's gonna bite you in the ass. Right? Right. Like it goes around, comes around. So I found my, my role in relationships, my value in a, in a sense in relationships through this process and, uh, good, bad or indifferent, uh, we're all human beings, right? Mm-hmm we make mistakes. There's a difference between morals and ethics and morals. Always Trump ethics. I try to use it to circumvent the rules of the game. Right. Consent being, I need her consent. I don't need his consent because right. That's their problem. Right.

Bobby:

He's talking about the,

Joshua:

but the moral of it is I need to know everybody is on the same page for me to do it. With integrity,

Bobby:

right? Yeah. And still feel good about it. Yeah.

Joshua:

Yeah. And you can't, you can't skirt morals with ethics. Right. But no. And then again, who's ever taught us this shit, whoever sat you down and said, listen, this is what it is to be a good partner, to be a good person. Fuck a partner, just a good person. Nobody,

Bobby:

some people go their whole lives

Bento:

without ever learning it.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Joshua:

Look at Oh,

Bobby:

oh anyway. And, and everyone's interpretation is different.

Joshua:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So it's like and this is the importance of, as we're talking about like a lot of this shit happens in the moment, right? So this is the importance of mentorship actually, of having someone senior to you who can say, look, this is what you're experiencing, or this is what you're not experiencing or not looking at, uh, or here's a different perspective, just so you can have more information. And this is what all this has been is, is, uh, uh, a journey of information and contrast. Hmm.

Bento:

Did you, did you begin as a submissive yourself or have you always been a dominant?

Bobby:

Uh,

Joshua:

I, I believe we're all on a spectrum, right? Dominance and submission. Uh, it varies between each person I've been submissive to people. I am submissive to people I'm submissive to her at times. Right. Uh, a lot of the times right.

Bento:

But so love,

Joshua:

because you know, if she has the greatest strength I'm going to let her drive the car. Right. I, I'm not gonna try to pretend like, just I'm the Dom, so I'm fucking holier than now, right? It's no, no, no. Please help me because I don't wanna fuck it up. And I have no issues stepping

Bobby:

back. Hmm. Right. So there's a lot of trust involved there. Hmm.

Bento:

Yeah.

Joshua:

Yeah. And you know, it. My relationship with faith through this whole process. Right. Like I was I'm Latino. Right. So I grew up, uh, Catholic in some other form of this or that. Right. Uh, and I discarded religion in my early teens. Right. Real early, like

Bobby:

at least before 12 Right, right. Right. A lot happened at 12 transf of year.

Joshua:

So I questioned a lot of shit. Right. And fast forward to my late thirties and I was doing, I do photography as well. And I took a photo of my then submissive or slave Jim, and I'm looking at it. And I said, man, Jim has a lot of faith in me that I'm not gonna fuck him up. Right. I'm not gonna do some dumb shit. Right. And I said, that's now not blindly. Like I've earned that shit. Right. Uh, and. It wasn't without hesitation, right? Like master, are you sure yes. Trust me, like do it and, and he would do it and, or not, sometimes we would have to revisit what the hesitation was, but we're always looking for a solution as opposed to just stalling on a problem. Right. So I was looking at this, uh, this picture and I said, Jim, he has got, has a lot of faith. And I said, who else has that? I said, oh, religious folks. I said, folks, either indoctrinated or experienced, they have this faith in a purpose governing their reality. Right. Hmm. That's greater than themselves. And then I said, what do I believe in? And it was like karma, right. I believe in karma. Right. So it's the faith in trust, right? That what I'm putting my time into. Is going to look out for me. Right. Uh, and that's like, that was Jim's perspective of, of our relationship was I had his best interest in mind all the time. And he had to lean into it if, if I let him through areas of doubt or fear. Right. Mm-hmm so it's been a whole, uh, identity development for me too. Not a, it's not even as dominant more so guide, right? Like, like I I'm a step ahead of you maybe two, and I know the loose rocks from the safe rocks, that's it? Cause I'm winging this shit too. Right? I learned everyone's winging it, like in my twenties. So it's like of some jarring shit.

Bento:

Hmm. So comma from your side and we. Catch up with your side of the story. So, you started out as a journalist from what I read a very, you know, conservative media outlet and you were tasked to actually, report on this, on this lifestyle, on this culture. So tell us a little bit about that and how that came about and, and, and how you, how you ended up with Joshua.

Karma:

Well I was, uh, so I'll give you the brief background. I was a journalist conservative outlet. I was researching a story about, uh it's so funny comes around. about, uh, kink and religion

Bento:

oh, right,

Karma:

right. I was, I was trying to get a picture of how, uh, religious people, uh, relate, like how does it relate to their region? I was trying to do, you know, I, it wasn't supposed to be a color piece, but I was trying to do like an in depth piece. kind of ended up in the depths

Bobby:

of that yeah.

Bento:

Right.

Karma:

So Joshua and his, uh, partner then partner were like my contact people. I, I got referred to them by somebody who knew them. Mm-hmm and like from the first party I attended to report on it, it became clear to me that this is an beyond the professional interest.

Bento:

It's a person. Oh, wow. So immediately you were, you were into it.

Karma:

It was like, yeah, it was like, uh, you know, somebody pulling back the curtain and you see like, you know, uh, the, the promised land it's like, right.

Bento:

And Joshua. So when you, when you were contacted by her employer, about getting a story done on you from a very conservative media outlet, like what was going through your mind?

Joshua:

I didn't handle it. I was just told about it, but I'm all about it, right. I, I enjoy. Putting it out there because I think it's important that people see it's okay. Normalizing a deal. Sure. So any, any type of, of media, uh, representation is incredible for me, so I get I'm super excited.

Bento:

Awesome. So you, you go into this party, curtain pulls back. How long were you reporting on this? Were you, going to these parties for. Well,

Karma:

Pretty much from the first time, uh, it, from the first time Joshua and I had a serious conversation, it became, uh, clear that this is a personal con connection with a professional aspect to it, but there was way too much going on straight from the beginning for it to be. Like, I'm just doing a story because it was obvious that I, I put my cards on the table. I was like, okay, I am, I am mesmerized. teach me.

Bento:

what ended up happening at the, uh, the media outlet. Did, did you do this, did you end up doing the story? Did you remove yourself from it? Well, You gotta

Joshua:

read the book on that. It's like, there's a whole, there's a whole process and it, and it, you

Bento:

can't tell that one. okay. Okay. Fair

Bobby:

enough. Fair enough. Very good. Very good. Cause it's,

Joshua:

it's very, it's very pivotal to her life, her journey. Right. Okay. And, uh, it's like, it's, it's the whole point of it,

Bobby:

right? There's a lot

Bento:

challenge

Karma:

with the reporting. Uh, it transformed into many different stories, many different things that in the way in the end found their way. Together as a book, but it was a series of article. I never stopped

Bobby:

writing over a long period of time or four years. Wow.

Karma:

That's terrific. The moment I met him till the moment. Wow.

Bobby:

Wow. That, that must be so awesome to look back on now. And all of those things written down over time, like, you know, now you get the incredible per permanently reflect on that experience. Right. You're the

Karma:

first person who points that out and yeah, it's really incredible to have that because it's sort of like, we, it didn't just happen. It, it made something, it, it right. Created something it's, it's beautiful.

Bento:

It's

Bobby:

like, uh, it really is.

Bento:

So during this time too we had read that, you had, you had cheated on your husband at the time. So that I found fascinating too, cuz from, from what I gather, you're still married to the same person. Right? Indeed. Yeah. So tell us about a little bit about that. Obviously in this lifestyle, you have like, jealousy is a huge emotion that people have to deal with. I I've reflected myself on my own jealousy and it's one of those things that you look at, and it's really, really tough to wrap your head around why your brain thinks the way that it does. Yeah. And it's tough to train it not to. Right. So, so how was that like with your husband and, and, you know, obviously he forgave you and you still have this relationship with him, how does that dynamic work?

Karma:

That is a, one of the more beautiful aspects of this story, I would say because yeah, my husband, what happened was my husband agreed for me to explore, understanding that I, I understanding that when a person says there's something that calls to me in that I wanna, I need to know about it. I need to. I need, I need to go there. He responded like, I am not gonna stop you because that's what life is about in, wow. It's like, I'm not, he put, he put in place boundaries, which were crossed because of misunderstandings and miscommunication and ill, you know, not being fully honest at the time, but, uh, it started with his permission to explore and it ended up with me reaping the benefits of that exploration personally, as in, I was allowed to do this journey in a way, and yes, I cheated sometime I, I, at, at some point I crossed a boundary and was just kind of like, I don't know how to stop this ball from rolling. Right,

Bento:

right.

Karma:

But once, once kind of like our visions aligned and it became clear that. We, we're not gonna, like, we're not gonna cheat and run. We're not gonna right. Sure. Once it became clear that I don't wanna break up with Joshua and I am willing to sacrifice, to, to risk, whatever is needed to risk, to both step up and speak up for this relationship and step up and, and make amends for

Bento:

the other relationship. Right. Hmm. That's incredible. And how

Bobby:

about from your end, Joshua in terms of, of, you know, did you know that, that she was married, you know, going into all of this, was that clear or, you know, how did that affect you?

Joshua:

Yeah. Uh, I knew, right. And that's where I tried to play the ethics over morals games and there was intention behind it. Right. Cause as when she came into our lives at the time, right. I was going through a process. I was being accused of some sexual assault. Right. And it was, it was all bullshit, but you can't prove something that didn't happen. Right. Right. You can't disuse something that didn't happen.

Bobby:

Right. So that is, that is one of the, the difficult, you know, kind of things to go through because it's one of those, it's one of those things where, uh, it's the, he said, she said, and it's, ultimately, you know, you're, you're guilty already. It's very hard. That was a reporter

Karma:

man. I was a reporter walking

Joshua:

in on, on that book, the book supposed to be about an article in its earlier. Beings. It was going to be an article about the me too movement and those in the community with accusations. Right? Oh. So at a point I was the subject and when she said she was mesmerized by me, it it's catches me by surpris say, I wrote that down. Cause I didn't wanna forget it cuz that's not how I saw it. I saw her as digging for evidence to, to prove that I did something. Right. Because ah right.

Karma:

Interesting. That's what she's there. I, I told him I was mesmerized, but he thought I was baiting her. Right. He thought

Joshua:

I was like money trap. So what, what I said was I'm gonna show you exactly who I am and I'll let you make that decision. And I fucking put it all out there because I didn't, I don't do that stuff. Right. But you can't question my character and not give me a platform to talk. Sure. Right. And that's it greats me. It's so disempowering and angering it's this whole fucking thing is mind blowing anyway. So. I sat with her and I gave her all of my truth to the best of my ability. Right. Cuz there's integrity is, is there's a spectrum to it in actuality, there isn't, it's either on or off like that's truth or not. Right, right. But there's a spectrum of that. Not truth area. How about that? it's like white and then different

Bobby:

shades of black yeah. Well technically technically truth is, uh, you know, different from everyone's perspective and it actually lies in the middle somewhere.

Joshua:

Uh yes and no. Yes and no. Right. So, so, uh, it's like just when, when engaging with her right to, to tell her right. If I omit something mm-hmm that's still not truth, it's a half truth, but you're still not telling the whole thing. Right. And that's, that's part of what a lot of this process is, has been, is removing layers of. False integrity. Right. Just putting everything up front so that you can address it head on with the best of intentions. Right. And we learned that hitting the skid of ethics over morals. Right. When I, I was showing her who I was and over that time emotions developed, right. Cuz she's holding space for me to speak my truth and she's not running away. Mm-hmm and she's, she's seeing me and she may, and she helps me see things about myself that I don't, uh, she can speak my language. She can take my thoughts and put 'em and make them sound beautiful. She knows me inside and out because of all this time that we just spent talking about theory and philosophy and approach and history, like not many people know her know me as well as she does mm-hmm so over that time, right? She has her tension of the relationship and the marriage. I have my tension of life being fucking flipped upside down mm-hmm and we're trying to make this work right. Because there's a deep love. Right. And it's not the physical kind. It's, it's the spiritual kind. It's the so kind like, I, I, I don't trust anyone more than her to have my back. Right. Like, right.

Bobby:

Uh, so what about your, your relationship with her husband? I mean, is that non-existent or it's

Joshua:

it's, we've met each other a couple times. Yeah. Uh, he's a nice guy. Thank you for him. uh, I would like a friendship. I would like, I would love a friendship, right? Sure. I would love to be able to cause my intention isn't. To take her, right. Yeah, right. To make her the best mother and woman and, and, and wife and human that she can possibly be by supporting her in her goals. Mm-hmm the return of that is submission for help in my life and other things.

Bobby:

Right. It's uh, so in, so in terms of that submission, are you speaking just on a sexual basis or in life as well?

Karma:

There were times where, uh, this submission went to as far as like, you know oh, there, there were times where this submission was kind of like my lifeline. So it was kind of like walking me through stuff, you know, really walking. It's a difficult thing to stand up and tell your husband, you know, those limits we talked about, I broke them. sure. And, and, and you know, those kids we have and this home we built. Mm. I don't know what's gonna happen with it now.

Bobby:

right. Yeah. It's all affected.

Karma:

It was horrifying. It's right.

Bento:

It's how long were you and your husband married when, when that happened? Eight years. Eight years. Yeah. So it's not like it's a year or two or something. Early eight years is a good, good chunk of time for sure.

Karma:

And it was, uh, you know, so the way, the only way I. Past that hurdle was by, by Joshua saying, okay, I'm, I'm gonna be your master and I'm gonna walk you through this and you're gonna do what I say. Interesting. You don't have this. The, if you don't have the will to do this for yourself, I'm gonna help. I'm gonna tell you exactly what to do and you're gonna do it. And there were things I was too scared to do. Right. I was too scared to, to do this because I have so much to lose. Uh, but he, we worked it out like a navigator with a map, and then he told me what to do and I had to do

Bento:

it. Can you give an example of something that, you know, you were really scared to do that, that he told you to

Joshua:

do? So the pre the idea of that is for the first year of our relationship, mm-hmm, we weren't in a power exchange. She wasn't collared. I didn't tell her what to do. Right. I can only make suggestions, right. Because I need you to trust me. If I'm gonna give you stuff, you're gonna do it because I'm not gonna fucking waste my time. Right. That's what it boils down to trust me. Or don't jump when I say jump or don't, it's totally up to you, but if you don't, I'm not gonna do, I can't be here with you. Right.

Bento:

Right. And obviously it takes time to build that with somebody. Yeah.

Joshua:

So when I say move, we move. Right. Because that's safety.

Bobby:

That's life. Yeah. It's looking out for both of you.

Joshua:

Yeah. Right. So there was hesitancy there because of whatever it was. I didn't feel like I was trusted enough, but steering her own car, her own life was proving difficult because of the friction, the conflict of two separate lives. It's not easy. Right. Especially on a level of love. Right. So it's like in order for you, in order for us to be, and it clicked one day in order for her to survive, to work through this, I have to take the responsibility of the relationship to this level. In a power exchange because she follows direction, but with trust, right? And well, I

Karma:

needed a color to trust him basically.

Joshua:

And she needed because she needed a symbol of recognition, which I didn't notice that I don't, because I don't get the most obvious fucking things. You can hit me in the face with it. I won't even see it. It's the recognition of the time spent together of the investment and the risks taken. And the in involvements, the representation of the collar says I am committed back. Right. And to me, it's like, well, just let my action speak. I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. I'm here. I'm not going anywhere because actions are all that matter to me. Right. Symbolism is cool and stuff. Actions are what matter.

Bento:

I mean, that's, that's an amazing analogy. You said, you know, actions and not symbolism, right. It speaks to your religion, right? You've your religion is karma. Right? Put good out. Get good back. I mean, those are actions, whereas your standard religions, Christianity, Judaism, whatever it is, everything is about the symbolism and that's, that's all it's about, you know what I mean? So it's, it's very fascinating to, to hear you say, that.

Joshua:

Thank you. Thank you for that. Wow. Thank you for that reflection. So I, I was going on a tangent. I'm sorry. I was my apologies for presentation. Uh, and in order for you to wear my collar, the first thing you have to do is tell your husband Hmm. Because that was the, everything clicked at that point. I realized this is what has to happen if we're going to move forward successfully. Yeah. That's the ultimate sign of trust, right? Trust. Right. This is the right thing to do because that whole time we were finding, I was trying to find different ways to open that door for the conversation, because originally my intention is to have everyone figure this shit out for themselves, sexual identity. Not, not necessarily through BDSM, maybe at that time. Yes. Yeah. Uh, just give yourself permission to ask questions.

Bobby:

Right, right. And be, be curious, be curious

Joshua:

and be honest with yourself because everybody wants something. You can, I, you can put anyone in front, you know, in five minutes. and it's like, uh, that's what I wanted to see, but it wasn't meant to be. uh, because he wasn't receptive to it throughout the early year or two or at all. Right. Uh, and that goes back to the relationship. I would, I would want with him is if she got sick, I would, I wouldn't want to miss her funeral if she died. Mm,

Bobby:

right. Yeah. Right. There's a, there's a barrier between yeah. There's a barrier for life events. Yeah. And that's interesting.

Joshua:

It's not, it's not about legitimizing. It it's just about the closeness. Mm-hmm uh, yeah. So

Bobby:

how, how do you, how do you do time? I mean, karma, are you spending 50 and 50 with, with, with Joshua and your husband and children? Or, I mean like, like how, how does that split in your mind work even

Joshua:

it's, that's a better question to my mind. It's,

Karma:

it's probably the hardest aspect of this thing is just dividing the time. Correct. So, uh, it's not 50 50 it's uh, it's I'd say 70, 30,

Joshua:

right? More like that from the conversation we had earlier. Mm-hmm yeah.

Karma:

Yeah. So the time that I share with my family, I, I spend most of my time with my family and, uh, and the time that is available to me or any other time I can find

Bento:

with Joshua.

Karma:

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes the, the, the error is not leaving enough time. It's, it's always a struggle because you you're always, it's two different worlds that do you live locally

Bobby:

with your

Bento:

intersect? Do you live locally with your husband and your children? Okay. So you're not like you're not flying out anywhere or anything like that. It's a, it's a drive. It's just commute. Okay. Okay. And how, how old are your children? Five and seven, five and seven. Okay. So I was just curious, I didn't know if they were maybe, you know, teenagers or if they had any idea of oh no,

Karma:

they're they, they they're like all about their mommy. They need their mom. They need all, yeah, of course. Like it's not, I can't, it's not like I can, it's it's most crucial and formative period in their lives and I cannot afford to miss it or, or have my own thing going on to the point that I don't see it. Yeah, of course.

Bobby:

They're, they're the highest majority. What is

Joshua:

great about it? Uh, and I'm sure that they'll see it in the long run, right. Because our relationship, I don't think it'll stay hidden forever. Sure. Right. Right. Of course. But the freedom and the time and the attention that she's given the, her children in their exploring their own identity and giving them the safe space, legitimate, safe space to be who they are, because. Through this process, you have to reflect on who you were. You have to, of course, right. You have to sit with yourself and ask, how could I do it differently? Right. What did they, can they get that I didn't, and what's important. And we're figuring that shit out with each other. What's important. Right? So that imagine if you can learn, have these pivotal experiences of understanding that relationships are because of how you make the person feel when they're with you, or even when they're not with you. How, how you make them feel is that is the pinnacle of the relationship. Mm-hmm the trust comes off of how you make them feel when they're with you. Right? Right. Mind blowing that no one ever talks to us about this shit. Right. So now to talk to your young child and, and explain to them what consent is, what. Expression means, right? Like the freedom of talk to me it's okay. Right. And

Bento:

it's amazing too, because like these children won't get brought up with it being taboo either. I was born in 1980. My parents, my family was very Catholic. Just even the word, just mentioning the word sex. And it was like, no, no, you don't talk about that. Yeah. So like, it took me a long time in my development to realize that all of these other things that I'm not accustomed to are okay, and they're not taboo and they're not bad. So for them to be able to grow up in that environment and not have the weight of that taboo is, is also incredible.

Karma:

It's really nice also to have the insights from his life. Right. Like when he tells me like the one thing I missed most from my mom, when he told me that the first time or from my parents is physical affection to be held. And I'm like, I, I could do that. I could easily do that. And that was just something that so easily changed. Right. Because I wasn't aware of it before he said it.

Joshua:

It's,

Bobby:

it's so funny. It. I'm sorry. It's just so funny to hear you both talk, like, because your dynamic is just so interesting. It, it feels like you two are almost sharing a life in a sense, because you have the ability to share both of your life experiences to help each of your lives individually. Right. It's a, and

Bento:

it's still, and it sounds like they've been together for 80 years though, too, at the same time. Right? It's like, it's like, guys, you guys are like a unit, you know, like you're one. So yeah, it's,

Bobby:

it's like a group think tank and it's just a great, interesting concept. I mean, even if you were just to take the, the sexual side out of it, the benefits that you get just from having two heads, instead of one, has to be a big impact. Huge,

Bento:

huge,

Joshua:

huge, huge. Just like polyamory comes into the picture. Right. Okay. So you ever hear though? One, one plus one is three. Yeah. You ever hear that? Right? You have one, you have two and then you have three, right? Mm-hmm If you have the minds connected like that, you can move mountains, mountains with all of you focusing your attention on the same intention you can move, make should happen miraculously. Right. It's crazy. Just how capable we are as a pair. Right. It's it's crazy. Mm-hmm

Bobby:

And so, and, and so would you say that that, you know, cause, cause you've spoken a lot about the trust and how that trust developed, would you say that that trust dev would have developed without the sexual aspect? Or was that a big part of being the, the master and the submissive led to you each being able to influence each other's lives?

Karma:

I would say, I would say it's kind of like saying, uh, could you have a mushroom trips? Could you have the experience of a mushroom trip without the mushrooms? Yes, you could. Okay. you could, right. You could meditate to that depth. You could, uh, okay. You could pray to that depth. You could, uh, spin around like a dear wish and, and get there. Mm-hmm but the shrooms are, you know, the trip that they delivered, the trips, that's how it came about. So yes, I'd say the sexual component was

Bobby:

it fueled the other

Karma:

side of us. What? Yeah. What, what lit the fire under the beacon? You know,

Bento:

wow. Sex, uh,

Joshua:

reflecting on cuz here's a question like I was talking with, uh mm-hmm one of my partner. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago around is last week. As a matter of fact, the quality of lover you are, right. Who's ever sat there. Grade me on my scale of ADA fucking F what am I as a lover? Right. right. But they, but they've never, I've never sat there and asked for a grade out of fear. Right. Because I don't want to be told I'm fucking, I suck.

Bobby:

Right. you you're terrible at this.

Joshua:

Yeah. And I stayed away from that question for my whole life until last week.

Bento:

interesting.

Karma:

I don't believe him at all,

Bento:

dude. I swear. Tell him all the time. I don't

Bobby:

believe him at all. No, no. But somebody must have told you at some point, like, like, you know, some cuz

Joshua:

you, you, when it's in the moment, right. It's expected in the book.

Karma:

Sorry, sir.

Joshua:

that's fair. Listen, cuz I don't take compliments easy. I don't like sure. I don't, they embarrass me. That's like a tough question, but that. I didn't, I didn't mean like, I didn't think of it that way cuz I don't see it. Like I don't thank you for saying this.

Karma:

Thank you for being the topic of my book, sir.

Bento:

so it's like

Joshua:

that, that, that action, right as a sex addict, right? Mm-hmm when you realize what you're doing and what you're giving away, time and energy. Right? Right. You, you stop doing it and you start, at least I started to focus on trying to maximize the time spent doing right. In both ways. Do it as much as I can and do it the best and have the most fucking wildest craziest time that I can in that process. When you find people who you can tell shit to and they don't blink an eye and they're like, fucking yes, let's do it. right.

Bobby:

Right. That sounds

Joshua:

awful. There's so much, there's so much freedom in that, right? Mm. Because. You can knock once you knock down shame and there's many walls of shame. It's not just one wall, right. As you're knocking these walls down and you're really feeling, not just seen but appreciated

Bobby:

for the open right. Super deep connection. Oh dude.

Joshua:

Like, and this, these are all interesting. Everything we're talking about tonight is stuff that has been going through my mind. And we've, haven't been talks, uh, about over the last seven days, maybe. Right? Mm-hmm and the importance of, of what's happening in sex and the energy exchange and the presence, right? The title, sex slave. Right. It's not trivial to us. That's my feed. Right. My ability to be myself with her is what fulfills me because that, that is that's my

Bobby:

freedom. Yeah. It's like unlimited open expression, right. 100%.

Joshua:

And. It's not degrading. It's not derogatory. All we're doing is holding space for each other to be who we are right. In the most who

Bobby:

you want, make sense.

Bento:

Right. So with taking that collar, right. You know, you got the collar and you, you have to obey are, are there, or were there just heart limits where you would be like, have to be Yeah. So are there those hard limits and not even just the sexual side, you know, everybody knows about like, you know, safety words, things like that. But even in life, like when he was helping you make these decisions with your family, you know, were there ever any, a hard stop where you just like, no, like I'm, I'm not going to do that.

Karma:

There were no hard stop that from set from the beginnings. There were, there was no, I am not gonna do AV ABC. Right. I didn't do. Right. Uh, there were places where like, I, I can't do that.

Bobby:

yeah. Along the way. Yeah. Coed it. And

Karma:

I was like, uh, Help work with me. I can't, I can't do that. I, I have a problem here, here and here. Okay. And then we address these problems and move past them to understand what do you need me to do so you could do it right. And do need, so I got the assurances. I need the safety measures. I need the

Bento:

so there is that compromise there in the relationship, even though it's a, a master slave scenario. Yeah. It's a

Bobby:

collaboration, right?

Karma:

It's not a compromise. It's it's just how it

Joshua:

works. It's can I, can I jump in on that? Cause this is, again, this is all shit in the last seven days. So there's a difference between petitioning and being invited. Right. Okay. So someone, if I, if I ask someone to come into my circle, they have a wider range of freedom in the decision making because I'm inviting them in. They can come with expectations. Okay. If someone comes knocking on my door, you cannot come with expectations. Got it. Right. And this is like, you, they have the consent and all that stuff too. But this is like a natural law, right. Of energy exchange. If, how can you come knock on my door and then ask me for something? Yeah. It'd make the balance and I'm gonna give it to you. Yeah. Because right. It doesn't know, dude, you don't get the fucking butter. How about you ask for the butter? And I decide if I want to give you butter. Right. And that shit, even if I wanna answer the fucking door, right, right. If I invite you, right. That's a different set of, and that's like a, a natural power balance

Bobby:

right now. Yeah. It's like guest versus, uh, uninvited guest. right

Joshua:

now with, with that, there's a level of trust that has to be in this level. Right. And respects and equality. And this is where morals come in and ethics and character. Right. Mm-hmm I to understand this law as it is in order for me to. Not be a scumbag. I have to not overstep my power. Right, right. Meaning I can't ask you shit. That's going to make you vulnerable without your desire to be vulnerable like that. Mm. Right. What I can do is ask you, right. Or ask you to inform me when you're ready to move things forward. Right. Right. Because I, it's already a shift in power. Right. And I don't want to be the one that makes you do anything. I want to be the one that gives you the permission to do it as you, as you wish.

Bobby:

Interesting. That's a, that's a very interesting concept, right? It's it's, I'm not forcing you, I'm allowing you. It's a very different way to phrase

Joshua:

that. Because to be in my space, you have the safety and you have the freedom to do everything you need to do. within these four walls. Right. And right. It's, it's more of guide it's time and energy as well. So this is like, it's like, this is the exchange right now you have the professional side where someone comes knocking on the door with money. Right. And they say, well, here, this is what, this is my investment. And then the return is the energy and the time. Okay. But, and, but that's, it's still cyclical, right. And it's not, it's not right or wrong. It's just, that's the way that chemistry is right now. I also have to be vulnerable in the state, in the spaces of leading by example. I will do whatever I ask of you first. Hmm. Right. If you need something from me, tell me, and I will do it to show you that. Look, it's not about me being here. It's about the, the safety of the space, like you said, the guide, right? I don't, I'm not, it's not a master slave, right? I'm not, it's not real. Mm it's. Master student. Right. It's just the learning life and how to reach these pinnacles of authenticity and, and en interesting. So, so do you, so it

Bobby:

seems like you view this, like, like, you know, we were talking earlier about the, the spiritual side to this and it does seem as though both of you, so let, let's take it way back before you each started having these experiences with each other or with other partners. Did you notice that your life was elevated because of that additional expressive freedom that you reward, you were rewarded in these safe spaces? Like I'm trying to figure out like what allowed you to get to this kind of spiritual place. Right. Because even just hearing you speak, you know, I can tell that you're, you're very in tune with your emotions. You're very in tune with the, the physical world around you. Right. Well, well, because you, you appear to speak very openly. No, you know what I mean? And so it's interesting to, to figure out how you got there, right. Sex that unlocked it or

Joshua:

no, no, it sounds like that, but believe it or not, like, I'm just more aware of my emotions. I have no control, like anger. It's only about how long am I angry for now? Yeah.

Bobby:

All right. That's a good way to put it. The aware I don't get

Joshua:

it's awareness. Right. And it's not easy because, and you're honest about him. Yeah, that, and that's, that's exactly it. It's like once you're aware of it, can you start working on, right. So it's a lot of awareness over the it's continuous. I mean, it doesn't stop. Like it's like, right.

Bobby:

That's what I mean. So, so without the, without you being in that dominant state or that dominant position, would you have still achieved the awareness that you now have? I think, I

Joshua:

think it comes from, uh, connections, right? The more, the more connections I've had and again, with intention behind it, right. The intention is I'm going to approach this with positive. Like I don't I'm people before kink is the philosophy. Right. Right. You are who you are before, what you are mm-hmm right. And we have an intensive that's, uh, built around this philosophy and it's around personal development and around knowing yourself and the value you bring to others. Right. It was developed off of the professional domination. Mm-hmm so. The experiences of being vulnerable and seeing, being seen and heard is transformative in and of itself. Interesting. What happens in those moments? Good, bad, and different are transformative, right in contrast. Right? This is how we learn shit about life. I like this. I don't like this. I want to feel like this. I don't want to feel like this. Sure. You make these adjustments, right. I've been lucky enough to, like, for me, you have to lose trust for me. You have to lose respect. I come in the door with a level of respect and trust for everyone in the room. Unless you're an asshole. Once you become a Dick yeah. Far

Bobby:

forget it. Yeah.

Joshua:

Regardless of my relationships and how many times I've been hurt and burned and stuff like that. Like, there was a time around from my late teens, uh, when I had my first daughter at 18 to, I don't know how long it lasted, but I was really angry with women cuz I was going through

Bobby:

family court. Mm oh yeah. And that's

Joshua:

always fun. An 18 year old. Right? This is an awareness. She brought me right through a conversation, the Frank Sinatra song, uh, my way. Right. Ooh, love it for her. It's authentic living for me. I would listen to that on my way to family court. Right. Stressed. Right. So the relation with that very transformative. I said thank you before, but I'll say thank you again. So after figuring out my power in relationships and I think it was around the time I found BDSM. I lost that anger. Hmm. Right. Uh, because now I understood how to handle this. Right, right. How I have the power to say no. Right. And I can, when I can say no to, uh, to someone for sex, when I said no to a woman for the first time, that was hugely powerful and leading into it, it, it just through consistency is how I developed faith in what was happening. So how I was treating people and how I was treating myself was the spiritual and religious aspect of it. You were gonna say,

Karma:

yeah. That From, from all this process I went through with master Joshua from, from the, from the interviewing him to listening to him, to trying to figure it out, to, to writing about him. All that, what I saw was what he does is basically kind fine tunes. People kind of like, like an instrument, you know? Yeah. When he's engaging with somebody, he's kind of like fine tuning them till they make the exact sound he plays. There's just a few formulas. Right? A few more of this, less of that. He kind of listens to the person until the person starts giving the right the right sound. Uh, the right, the right vibration. Uh mm.

Joshua:

What do you mean by right

Karma:

when, like when you fine tuning an instrument, right. You're sending out a vibration mm-hmm and when the vibration you get back matches the one you sent out. They align right then it's

Bento:

right. For

Karma:

who? Right. For the right, for the vibration you sent out, as in, you're checking you, when you interact with people, it's kind of like truth. I'd say the vibration you reach is truth. You kind of, you hit that spot when they start communicating their truths and, and you start getting it back and, and the exchange begins to be like that. And he'll keep, find tweaking the relationship or, or the interaction or the words he uses, or the tone of voice or the, or the word something he says until, until it's on that level until, and it strikes home. Yeah. Until the person next, until they're having a honest conversation or interaction, it doesn't have to be a physical

Bobby:

conversation. Right. And that's right.

Bento:

Cause when you, when you finally tune something between instrument, that's where it's supposed to be. That's that, that's where, that's where it was made to be that that's the spot, right? That's

Karma:

the it's to sound right. When you're. The vibration. I don't think it's like fine tuning them to, to, to say certain things. It's just speak your truth, you know? Sure. Right. As you are, when he hits that point, and it doesn't matter if, if he's doing it, uh, you know, by, uh, talking or by flogging somebody or by fucking them, that thing is sorry. Sorry. Uh, that thing is, is, is, uh, that exchange, that information is what is done on all the on that's, what he does on all the loves. So for me, that is why it is spiritual because you get that, uh, you get that experience of being led to your truth in a way you're speaking your truth. Now you didn't even know it, but you, you are led to your truth through that process and you have permission to

Bobby:

be in it. Wow. Interesting. It's very L right, because yeah, for you, it it's, it's his help. That's a, you know, creating this space for you to have that kind of ultra expression freedom and be exactly who you wanna be,

Karma:

who I am. Right. I don't have to play any kind of, I do have to perform, perform. I, I am in a role, but I don't have to play that role. Right. I don't have to, to be like, I can come in and, and, and be upset and, and, and cry. And it's okay. I don't have to be, you know, I could come in and be. And it's okay. Like sure. There's roles and regulations for everything. Not everything can be done. Not everything can be done anytime, but

Bobby:

right. But it's like incredible. I'm allowed to yeah. You have, you have to keep that sense of control in order to keep things safe and in line and everybody on the same page.

Right.

Karma:

He's the boss. I mean, he's the master, right? so, so that's the bottom line, like, you know, but I have permission and more than permission, it even came up today. I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm in a bad place right now, but I'm gonna come with the truth. Right. And I can say that I can be who I am. I can just throw this at him and say like help me.

Bento:

right, right. That's awesome. That's that's really good guys. So so yeah, I mean, thank you both slave karma and her master Joshua, we really appreciate We really appreciate you guys coming on. Yeah. Thank you. Tell this you know, I, I knew this was gonna be informative and educational. But I didn't expect this level of that's what I'm looking for. I'm not really, I'm looking for spiritual. It's not really spiritual philosophizing. Yeah. Just, just philosophy. And, and, uh, it was very, it was very deep and it wasn't the, it wasn't the conversation I expected to happen, but in the best way possible. That's, that's how I could say that. Yeah. Yeah. I did that so much. I really, so I really appreciate you both. I mean, book too, for sure. Yeah, exactly. So this is a time where we, uh, you know, give us some, where can, where can we get your book, uh, websites, anything that you wanna promote?

Karma:

Master Joshua, the BDSM memoir of an unfaithful wife, you can find it on Amazon with a different cover because Amazon are particular about latex. Oh, interesting. So, uh, you can find it on Amazon and, uh, right now through August, it's on sale it's for $1. So how through the entire month of August through the entire month of August. Oh wow. You can get it for, uh, $1. So it. Just because I didn't want money to be a problem for anybody. I want this out.

Bento:

That's awesome. I mean, you can't even buy a cup of coffee for a book, so go out and buy this book at least. Yeah. That's terrific. No

Bobby:

excuses. I'm gotta be honest. I, I love the two of yours per just your perspective on life and openness and relationships. It's, uh, very refreshing. It's very different obviously. And, uh, I, I appreciate, uh, your willingness to share it and, uh, be open about it. So thank you. Thank

Joshua:

you. Thank you guys so much. It was, uh, it was a honor and, uh, it allowed me to process some stuff, which was, uh, really incredible. Like I took away a lot from

Bobby:

this too. Good. Terrific. Terrific. Yeah. Thank you guys so much again for your time and, uh, best of luck going forward and hopefully we hear from you again. Awesome. Anytime, anytime. All right,

Bento:

take

Bobby:

great. Have a good night. Take care. Thank you.